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| Question Re: M2 vs X1 engine performance? https://www.ukbeg.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=950 |
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| Author: | mich [ 09 Jun 2009 13:29 ] |
| Post subject: | Question Re: M2 vs X1 engine performance? |
Hi Guys, I've just swapped my X1 engine for an M2 engine because the X1 engine needs some serious health checks done. However after fitting the M2 engine I am now not getting nearly as much oomph out of the bike as I was getting with my shagged-out X1 engine? The M2 engine has only got 7000 miles on the clock and has got very good compression. So, here's what I've checked so far: 1 - Checked timing and I am using the timing rotor from the X1 on the M2 engine. Engine wouldn't start with the M2 timing rotor against the X1 ECU, hence no option! 2 - Cam timing is all OK. I've had the cam cover off to change the oil pump drove gear and I am 100% sure that the cam timing is correct. All according to manual with all dots aligned correctly. 3 - Cams in M2 engine are standard 2001. Maz confirmed a couple of months ago. 4 - Same exhaust as on X1 engine. 5 - Same carb and settings as on X1 engine (Mikuni). 6 - Same pulleys as on X1 engine. 7 - New spark plugs with correct gap set. Changing the timing and turning the timing plate to the right (clockwise) helps a little bit. but it still doesn't have the urgency my X1 engine used to have. I don't know whether the front primary sprocket could be different in the X1 engine. I haven't checked. I am going to check the carb settings tonight because the engine seems to be running very rich. I get lots of black sooty deposits on the swingarm and rear rim, so I guess I can lean it out a tad. Maybe that'll help? Any hints are greatly appreciated! Mich |
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| Author: | pash [ 09 Jun 2009 13:32 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Question Re: M2 vs X1 engine performance? |
Have they both got Thunderstorm heads? Look at me with all the jargon |
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| Author: | mich [ 09 Jun 2009 13:39 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Question Re: M2 vs X1 engine performance? |
pash wrote: Have they both got Thunderstorm heads? Look at me with all the jargon thats what i was told.... they're both the same year, 2001. I've got the V5 for both bikes. Everybody I Asked so FaR Has saId tHAt ThEy should bE the sAMe enginES. APpoLOGIeS FOR tHe WeIRD lEtTeRiNg, My kEYbOaRd'S JusT GOne MAD!! 
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| Author: | pash [ 09 Jun 2009 13:55 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Question Re: M2 vs X1 engine performance? |
Are the heads black on both engines? |
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| Author: | Norm [ 09 Jun 2009 14:04 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Question Re: M2 vs X1 engine performance? |
mich wrote: 5 - Same carb and settings as on X1 engine (Mikuni). X1 has a carb? pash wrote: Are the heads black on both engines? 
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| Author: | mich [ 09 Jun 2009 14:08 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Question Re: M2 vs X1 engine performance? |
Yes, heads are black on both engines. And yes, my X1 was converted by the previous owner to a carb. |
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| Author: | Norm [ 09 Jun 2009 14:11 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Question Re: M2 vs X1 engine performance? |
Then there should be very little difference in engine performance. Count the cogs on the front sprockets. |
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| Author: | Adam [ 09 Jun 2009 15:17 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Question Re: M2 vs X1 engine performance? |
Have you got a bit of cutting disc jammed down the manifold ?    Drop the needle and see if that helps to crisp it up a bit. |
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| Author: | mich [ 09 Jun 2009 15:21 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Question Re: M2 vs X1 engine performance? |
Adam wrote: Have you got a bit of cutting disc jammed down the manifold ? Drop the needle and see if that helps to crisp it up a bit. Narr. The piece of cutting disc is jammed into my forehead...  I'll try dropping the needle when I get home to see if that helps. Its glaringly obvious that that things is running too rich. It feels really sluggish. Once the revs pick up it gets better, and it runs reasonably well from 5k onwards, but still nowhere near as good as the other engine. At least its doesn't spit oil everywhere. And the exhaust seems to be holding as well! Which is a bonus, after I've tried 20 different variations of front exhaust hanger over the last year! 
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| Author: | muzza [ 09 Jun 2009 17:33 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Question Re: M2 vs X1 engine performance? |
what are you going to do with either engine once your sorted? have you had the m2 engine apart?
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| Author: | kevmean [ 09 Jun 2009 18:18 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Question Re: M2 vs X1 engine performance? |
Are you sure the M2 engine isn't more fucked than what you THOUGHT the X1 engine might be 
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| Author: | 03 [ 09 Jun 2009 18:37 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Question Re: M2 vs X1 engine performance? |
Is it an American market M2 engine by any chance  The domestic market M2 engines had softer Sportster camshafts fitted from the factory. Export engines had same as X1/S1/S3 (.497" Screaming Beagle camshafts).
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| Author: | mich [ 09 Jun 2009 22:05 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Question Re: M2 vs X1 engine performance? |
Right, got it sorted. Pretty much. I'm now within 95% of what the X1 used to perform like. Here's what I checked: - Front pulley, 27 teeth on M2 engine. On the X1 its 29!? - Dropped needle in carb but realized that there was only one step left to drop it anyways. - Tried different jet sizes, getting progressively smaller. Fitting smaller jets made the roll-on and half throttle performance better but shagged the top end. - Also plaid some more with changing the position of the Hall sensor timing with no difference whatsoever - Then realized that the X1 engine has got a engine temp sensor in the rear head, so the ECU is 'looking' for the info from the sensor. I checked the manual and it says that the ECU uses the engine temp sensor to advance the ignition timing. The M2 engine doesn't have the sensor. Could not remove the sensor from the X1 head though because I don't have the right tools. Manual says that at 300C the engine temp sensor resistance is 0, which equals ground. So I connected the wire straight to earth and tried again. Bingo! The bike is now performing pretty well, and almost as well as the X1 engine was. That's good enough for me. I can probably start raising the needle in the carb again to see if I can increase the performance a bit more now that the timing is finally sorted. A bit of a weird one this! |
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| Author: | Roddy [ 10 Jun 2009 11:36 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Question Re: M2 vs X1 engine performance? |
mich wrote: The M2 engine doesn't have the sensor. I thought the M2 engine had this sensor, I'm sure mine does (a 2002 model) ? glad to read you got it sorted anyway 
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| Author: | Spook [ 10 Jun 2009 12:11 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Question Re: M2 vs X1 engine performance? |
http://www.transportspecs.com/buell-motorcycles/ The M2 should be way faster |
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