UK Buell Enthusiasts Group :: Open and closed loop

Riding in Closed Loop allows the ECM to reset the AFV and compensate for the environment. It is good practice to do this periodically. Normal riding conditions will normally include Closed Loop riding for long enough. To ensure the AFV is about right for your setup, try and do a few miles on flat roads between 40 – 70mph and low throttle openings, with a steady throttle. This should set the AFV
If you have the time, you could try riding at 2000rpm for a couple of miles and check the AFV. Next try 2500rpm and check, then 3000 and 3500. This would validate your map in this region of Throttle / RPM combination, but is a lot of effort!
Remember with a narrowband O2 sensor (standard one) the readings are very slow to respond, hence the steady riding required to adjust the AFV.

Quote:

Yes I have the prog and read this but it makes no mention of the open loop situation or what it does.

The tuning guide was written when we didn't know much about the ECM. Things have moved on a long way since then.

The descriptions which you have lifted above are misleading and incomplete.

TBH, we really need to update the tuning guide, but it is something that I don't have any time to do. And it shouldn't be a tuning guide, but a guide to how the ECM works.

Author:	THE FLYING DUCHMAN [ 14 Sep 2009 21:53 ]
Post subject:	Open and closed loop
I am not sure of what open and closed loop is about in ECM spy. Any help would be great. Thanks.

Author:	Motorrad [ 14 Sep 2009 23:12 ]
Post subject:	Re: Open and closed loop
If you have the program, go to Help tab. In drop-down menu, click on Tuning Guide, for your reading pleasure. For example: So what is Closed Loop? The Closed Loop area is found when riding in low throttle positions at low rpm, but not under stress. I believe this is approximately 1500-4000rpm and 10 – 30% throttle. Riding in Closed Loop allows the ECM to reset the AFV and compensate for the environment. It is good practice to do this periodically. Normal riding conditions will normally include Closed Loop riding for long enough. To ensure the AFV is about right for your setup, try and do a few miles on flat roads between 40 – 70mph and low throttle openings, with a steady throttle. This should set the AFV If you have the time, you could try riding at 2000rpm for a couple of miles and check the AFV. Next try 2500rpm and check, then 3000 and 3500. This would validate your map in this region of Throttle / RPM combination, but is a lot of effort! Remember with a narrowband O2 sensor (standard one) the readings are very slow to respond, hence the steady riding required to adjust the AFV.

Author:	THE FLYING DUCHMAN [ 14 Sep 2009 23:23 ]
Post subject:	Re: Open and closed loop
Hi thanks. So what is open loop.

Author:	THE FLYING DUCHMAN [ 14 Sep 2009 23:28 ]
Post subject:	Re: Open and closed loop
Quote: Riding in Closed Loop allows the ECM to reset the AFV and compensate for the environment. It is good practice to do this periodically. Normal riding conditions will normally include Closed Loop riding for long enough. To ensure the AFV is about right for your setup, try and do a few miles on flat roads between 40 – 70mph and low throttle openings, with a steady throttle. This should set the AFV If you have the time, you could try riding at 2000rpm for a couple of miles and check the AFV. Next try 2500rpm and check, then 3000 and 3500. This would validate your map in this region of Throttle / RPM combination, but is a lot of effort! Remember with a narrowband O2 sensor (standard one) the readings are very slow to respond, hence the steady riding required to adjust the AFV. Yes I have the prog and read this but it makes no mention of the open loop situation or what it does.

Author:	pash [ 14 Sep 2009 23:37 ]
Post subject:	Re: Open and closed loop
The tuning guide was written when we didn't know much about the ECM. Things have moved on a long way since then. The descriptions which you have lifted above are misleading and incomplete.

UK Buell Enthusiasts Group https://www.ukbeg.com/forum/

Open and closed loop https://www.ukbeg.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=2610	Page 1 of 1

Author:	pash [ 14 Sep 2009 23:45 ]
Post subject:	Re: Open and closed loop
THE FLYING DUCHMAN wrote: Quote: Riding in Closed Loop allows the ECM to reset the AFV and compensate for the environment. It is good practice to do this periodically. Normal riding conditions will normally include Closed Loop riding for long enough. To ensure the AFV is about right for your setup, try and do a few miles on flat roads between 40 – 70mph and low throttle openings, with a steady throttle. This should set the AFV If you have the time, you could try riding at 2000rpm for a couple of miles and check the AFV. Next try 2500rpm and check, then 3000 and 3500. This would validate your map in this region of Throttle / RPM combination, but is a lot of effort! Remember with a narrowband O2 sensor (standard one) the readings are very slow to respond, hence the steady riding required to adjust the AFV. Yes I have the prog and read this but it makes no mention of the open loop situation or what it does. The ECM uses a narrow band sensor. This is only accurate at 14.7:1 AFR. A NB sensor acts as a switch and was designed for mixture control to work with catalytic converters. For max power, you need approximately 10% richer than this, so control by the NB lambda sensor will never give you this (although it will know if the engine is running lean), hence an Open Loop mode where more fuel than a 14.7:1 AFR is possible. In addition, the Open Loop mode is used when you shut the throttle off, where you want to be running leaner than 14.7:1 cos you want more engine braking... The AFV is the icing on the cake for corrections applied to the Open Loop area. I did some simple diagrams of the ECM logic here: http://www.ukbeg.com/archive/modules.ph ... ic&t=32173

Author:	THE FLYING DUCHMAN [ 15 Sep 2009 00:03 ]
Post subject:	Re: Open and closed loop
Hi Nick. Sorry to be a pain but in my line of work I need to know all and that goes through all my other stuff as well. Thank you for your help.

Author:	Motorrad [ 16 Sep 2009 13:35 ]
Post subject:	Re: Open and closed loop
pash wrote: The tuning guide was written when we didn't know much about the ECM. Things have moved on a long way since then. The descriptions which you have lifted above are misleading and incomplete. ...and are available, only a click away, to every fool with ECMSpy loaded. Maybe a good reason the program is no longer available to the browsing public for download... Thank you for helping all of us fools work our way through to an understanding of this very cool program. There is so much information "out there," it takes a huge effort to get to it, digest it, and also to sort through and differentiate the gospel from the fish-wrap. On the link you posted, you have a very good list of names to trust when it comes to reading through tuning posts.

Author:	pash [ 16 Sep 2009 15:40 ]
Post subject:	Re: Open and closed loop
TBH, we really need to update the tuning guide, but it is something that I don't have any time to do. And it shouldn't be a tuning guide, but a guide to how the ECM works. My idea of tuning may be different to yours.... http://www.ukbeg.com/archive/modules.ph ... ic&t=32691

Author:	gunter [ 16 Sep 2009 17:20 ]
Post subject:	Re: Open and closed loop
pash wrote: TBH, we really need to update the tuning guide, but it is something that I don't have any time to do. And it shouldn't be a tuning guide, but a guide to how the ECM works. This is a currently running task. I updated about half of the tuning guide, but I have to set up my test bench again before I can continue, to be able to run some logs for explanation.

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