Sensors on X1 - when should they be changed?

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Babybadger
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Sensors on X1 - when should they be changed?

Postby Babybadger » Thu Feb 09, 2012 1:42 am

Looking at changing the TPS, the O2 sensor (got a Bosch 12014 http://www.amazon.com/Bosch-12014-Oxygen-Sensor-Fitment/dp/B0009IK7YC as sourced by these guys http://www.badweatherbikers.com/buell/m ... 1281288733) , and possibly the Head Temp Sensor. The bike has done 15k now, and I am sure these things don't last forever.

Reason being, the TPS never seems right....it like it drifts.... The plug was quite fouled on the rear cylinder when I took them out to change them, and I have had the head temp sensor show a fault when I had battery issues, but nothing since.

What does happen though is about 3-4 mins after taking it out for a spin (nearly at optimum temperature) it feels like it wants to stall, and I have to rev it to keep it going (above 2500rpm) , then its ok , bar a few coughs....???? I have only had these issues since I put the Stock pipe back on and took the Supertrapp off.....

Are they a ball ache to change? and where is the cheapest for them, and how much should i pay for them?

Any tips would be appreciated.....
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gunter
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Re: Sensors on X1 - when should they be changed?

Postby gunter » Thu Feb 09, 2012 5:45 am

When did you change the sensors in your cars?
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Re: Sensors on X1 - when should they be changed?

Postby chris(madrid) » Thu Feb 09, 2012 8:59 am

gunter wrote:When did you change the sensors in your cars?
Luckily my cars don't have such things (well not many).
:hehe:

Narrow Band O2 sensors supposedly last for yonks, AFAIK if they're treated as intended.

Wide Band - depends who you speak to. A lot suggest 50,000 miles.

Temp sensors - replace when they fail.

TPS - they can and do fail - some more than others - if in doubt - change it.
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Sensors on X1 - when should they be changed?

Postby Babybadger » Thu Feb 09, 2012 10:10 am

gunter wrote:When did you change the sensors in your cars?

We changed the throttle idler in our SEAT just the other week....


Any reason why I am getting the cutout after 4 or so minutes then? I have read a faulty BAS could be a problem, but the engine still runs like it's only on one cylinder....
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Re: Sensors on X1 - when should they be changed?

Postby kevmean » Thu Feb 09, 2012 11:11 am

I'd suggest trying to identify the fault rather than just change them all..............check for bad connections first and also check that the O2 sensor has got a good earth through the exhaust system,remember that if the system is rubber mounted that the only earth the sensor will get is through the headers so if the system is loose at the header clamps (quite common) it may get a poor reading.
TPS sensor can be checked with a test meter or by using ecmspy and watching for a steady increase in voltage as you roll the throttle on gently.
Bank angle sensor can be turned off in ecmspy.
Head temp sensors can be harder to identify sometimes as they don't always flag up a fault when they start to fail and do make the bike run very rough ......again check for a bad connection first (make sure the connector itself is tight and not just being held tight by the rubber cover).
Also check the ignition switch as they are a known weak spot ,,,often if they are failing the switch will feel warm .....any sign of warmth means switch needs replacing .
Ecmspy is your friend here ...................hook it up and then you can watch all the readings from the sensors as the engine warms up .....better still log it and then maybe one of the experts here will cast an eye over it to help diagnose the problem ;)

May take a while to find ....my X1 cutting out took me months to isolate to a fault in the wiring loom lOl
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Re: Sensors on X1 - when should they be changed?

Postby pash » Thu Feb 09, 2012 11:16 am

Run a log.

Before changing sensors you need to understand the failure mechanisms of each.

Kev's issue above was down to a harness issue rather than a sensor, and as he says this was eventually determined using ECMSpy logged data and a review of data by his virtual friends :sun:
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Re: Sensors on X1 - when should they be changed?

Postby Montyhound » Thu Feb 09, 2012 1:02 pm

Babybadger wrote:Looking at changing the TPS, the O2 sensor (got a Bosch 12014 http://www.amazon.com/Bosch-12014-Oxygen-Sensor-Fitment/dp/B0009IK7YC as sourced by these guys http://www.badweatherbikers.com/buell/m ... 1281288733) , and possibly the Head Temp Sensor. The bike has done 15k now, and I am sure these things don't last forever.

Reason being, the TPS never seems right....it like it drifts.... The plug was quite fouled on the rear cylinder when I took them out to change them, and I have had the head temp sensor show a fault when I had battery issues, but nothing since.

What does happen though is about 3-4 mins after taking it out for a spin (nearly at optimum temperature) it feels like it wants to stall, and I have to rev it to keep it going (above 2500rpm) , then its ok , bar a few coughs....???? I have only had these issues since I put the Stock pipe back on and took the Supertrapp off.....

Are they a ball ache to change? and where is the cheapest for them, and how much should i pay for them?

Any tips would be appreciated.....


Hmmmmm! I and two neighbours bought 3 of the 20 or so Millennium Special Edition X1's that came into the UK in 2000.

I had a problem with the rear cylinder head temperature sensor on my bike about 6 years ago. In my case, the engine warning light came on but there was zero impact on performance - albeit I rode it like an old lady until the local HD dealer diagnosed the fault and replaced the sensor.

One of my neighbours had a intermittent fault on his for several years ( misfiring and hesitating without any particular pattern ) until having it checked out a few months ago. The inital scan of the electronics didn't immediately show up a fault but a second ( road ) test showed the sensor throwing wobblies and the problem disappeared when the sensor was changed.

Note - We are all running race cans, K&N air filters and Buell race ECUs to cope with the wider range of electronic sensor inputs ( my X1 wouldn't run right with the filter and can changes on the standard ECU ).

Richard
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Montyhound
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Re: Sensors on X1 - when should they be changed?

Postby Montyhound » Thu Feb 09, 2012 1:06 pm

Montyhound wrote:
Babybadger wrote:Looking at changing the TPS, the O2 sensor (got a Bosch 12014 http://www.amazon.com/Bosch-12014-Oxygen-Sensor-Fitment/dp/B0009IK7YC as sourced by these guys http://www.badweatherbikers.com/buell/m ... 1281288733) , and possibly the Head Temp Sensor. The bike has done 15k now, and I am sure these things don't last forever.

Reason being, the TPS never seems right....it like it drifts.... The plug was quite fouled on the rear cylinder when I took them out to change them, and I have had the head temp sensor show a fault when I had battery issues, but nothing since.

What does happen though is about 3-4 mins after taking it out for a spin (nearly at optimum temperature) it feels like it wants to stall, and I have to rev it to keep it going (above 2500rpm) , then its ok , bar a few coughs....???? I have only had these issues since I put the Stock pipe back on and took the Supertrapp off.....

Are they a ball ache to change? and where is the cheapest for them, and how much should i pay for them?

Any tips would be appreciated.....



I should add - Note - We are all running race cans, K&N air filters and Buell race ECUs to cope with the wider range of electronic sensor inputs ( my X1 wouldn't run right with the filter and can changes on the standard ECU - despite the standard UCU being re-set by HD ).

Richard

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Re: Sensors on X1 - when should they be changed?

Postby pash » Thu Feb 09, 2012 1:27 pm

Montyhound wrote:I should add - Note - We are all running race cans, K&N air filters and Buell race ECUs to cope with the wider range of electronic sensor inputs.


What do you mean by wider range?
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Re: Sensors on X1 - when should they be changed?

Postby gunter » Thu Feb 09, 2012 6:39 pm

Babybadger wrote:
gunter wrote:When did you change the sensors in your cars?

We changed the throttle idler in our SEAT just the other week....


That's not a sensor.

I will never understand why many owners seem so very keen to replace sensors, especially O2 sensors. As already said, replace them if they are broken, but don't if not. With the exception of the engine temperature sensor (which is mofuco's very own P.O.S.) all other are standard parts, used in billions of cars without the slightest problems.
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Re: Sensors on X1 - when should they be changed?

Postby Montyhound » Fri Feb 10, 2012 10:24 am

pash wrote:
Montyhound wrote:I should add - Note - We are all running race cans, K&N air filters and Buell race ECUs to cope with the wider range of electronic sensor inputs.


What do you mean by wider range?


I have always assumed that the race ECU is designed to cope with a wider range of voltage inputs from the various sensors that it is designed to take readings from than the standard ECU can cope with and thus output the appropriate instructions to the electronics controlling the ignition and fuel systems.

I have never taken my engine to anything like it's BHP and/or RPM limits and
further assume that the standard X1 sensors feeding into the ECU produced different outputs ( which the standard ECU wasn't designed to cope with ) when my free flowing air intake and exhaust components were installed because, like I said, resetting the standard ECU with a Scanalyser didn't cure the initial rough running problems whereas fitting the race ECU did and this was the advice of the HD dealer's spanner men at the time.

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Re: Sensors on X1 - when should they be changed?

Postby kevmean » Fri Feb 10, 2012 10:58 am

Montyhound wrote:
pash wrote:
Montyhound wrote:I should add - Note - We are all running race cans, K&N air filters and Buell race ECUs to cope with the wider range of electronic sensor inputs.


What do you mean by wider range?


I have always assumed that the race ECU is designed to cope with a wider range of voltage inputs from the various sensors that it is designed to take readings from than the standard ECU can cope with and thus output the appropriate instructions to the electronics controlling the ignition and fuel systems.

I have never taken my engine to anything like it's BHP and/or RPM limits and
further assume that the standard X1 sensors feeding into the ECU produced different outputs ( which the standard ECU wasn't designed to cope with ) when my free flowing air intake and exhaust components were installed because, like I said, resetting the standard ECU with a Scanalyser didn't cure the initial rough running problems whereas fitting the race ECU did and this was the advice of the HD dealer's spanner men at the time.


I don't think at the time that the scanalizer was able to remap the ecu as such ..........it could update all but the very first ecu's I believe with small tweeks but would not have been able to install race maps in a standard ecu as Harley wanted to sell the customer a new one to go with the race kit.
My 2001 X1 ran ok with a scorpion can and standard ecu though.
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Re: Sensors on X1 - when should they be changed?

Postby pash » Fri Feb 10, 2012 11:51 am

All the sensor outputs should be the same; inlet air temp is governed by mother nature, TPS will still have the same range and O2 sensor will operate in the same 0 to 1V range

What will have changed with your ECM is the fuel map, the ignition map and the rev limiter.
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Re: Sensors on X1 - when should they be changed?

Postby Babybadger » Fri Feb 10, 2012 12:04 pm

Thanks all, the ignition switch is looking favourite, it was warm when I took the key out the last time I rode it, I have heard they can fail, its non original and is in the same place as the throttle idle control cable nearly....

How much and who/where is best to procure one? Or are they a general custom type item I can source here in Tenerife?

Btw I am running a Forcewinder, Standard map AFAIK, and now a standard X1 Exhaust (was a Supertrapp 4" with closed cap and 8 discs I think.....)
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Re: Sensors on X1 - when should they be changed?

Postby Babybadger » Fri Feb 10, 2012 12:05 pm

gunter wrote:
Babybadger wrote:
gunter wrote:When did you change the sensors in your cars?

We changed the throttle idler in our SEAT just the other week....


That's not a sensor.

I will never understand why many owners seem so very keen to replace sensors, especially O2 sensors. As already said, replace them if they are broken, but don't if not. With the exception of the engine temperature sensor (which is mofuco's very own P.O.S.) all other are standard parts, used in billions of cars without the slightest problems.


Well spotted, I stand and.... :coat:

I was told that if the voltage starts to vary from the norm, its time to change them, and at £14 delivered , I am not going to quibble with an O2 sensor, that is potentially fouling plugs costing £10 a time.....
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