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PostPosted: 08 Sep 2009 18:05 
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proff. patpending
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THE FLYING DUCHMAN wrote:
Just another thought about air cooling of the engine.

Last week I put the OEM plastic bit back on the r/h side to see what would happen and found that even at 80mph the fan was running. It seems to me that if the fan comes on at 220C @ 80mph then the thing is not getting enough cooling and my engine is well run in. With the r/h scoop on the fan only comes on in very heavy traffic or if I thrash the bike.

I sometimes wonder if the r/h scoop is cooling the rear cylinder to much because it is plainly pushing a lot of air over the back cylinder. Could it be, given the engine temp is taken from the rear cyl, over cooling is a problem.


I dunno, but my fan comes on if I run at 90ish and it doesn't worry me. Will have to check temp for fan on and fan off, IIRC it is on at 220 and off at 180 deg C :?: .

See my data here:

viewtopic.php?p=30015#p30015

Even on a 20 to 25 deg C day, on a short twisty circuit, with enough abuse to use a full tank of fuel in less than 50 miles, the temperature did not increase beyond 200 deg C....

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PostPosted: 10 Sep 2009 00:46 
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It seems to have fixed all the problems I was having . timing response seems to be fine . I would had rather not disabled the O2 sensor , but nothing else worked .


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PostPosted: 11 Sep 2009 22:27 
THE FLYING DUCHMAN wrote:
Hi Pash thanks for the info.

I have reset the plug gaps as they were to small and the electrode colour looked perfect. The TPS reset was last done 02/05/09 so I have done it again. The AFV was 98% (in the gauge box) so reset that and it now states 100% in the gauge box. Both done with the engine cold and the ambient was 28C. Fan comes on @ 220C.

Cold Start Enrichment went down to 100% @ 180C, 99% @ 200C and 98% @ 220C (bike standing). Is this ok and is 100% zero CSE. It was in closed loop but if you blip the throttle open loop flashes up sometimes. Is that normal.

Went for a run straight away (engine warm) and it was much better but not 100%. Stop, restarted the engine and it was 100%. The engine run perfect. I will try it from cold and see what happens :roll:

Update. Run it again after 4hrs standing and the same as before. Throttle control is great again. It will pull away in 5th from 40mph, 3rd from 25mph and hold 30 and 70mph with no juddering.

Sweet. Hope it lasts :D


Yes it is fine now. What it does is this.

From cold it is fine. Then after about 5 miles it gets a very, very slight judder (at low speed, high speed is ok) and after about another 5 miles it goes away. It seems to take about 10 miles to warm the engine through even with my well run in engine.

I cannot find any logic to what this might be but I think it is something to do with the front/rear cyl thing. Anyway I would have had twin temp and O2 sensors myself and an ECM that could use the data from these. But that is just me :roll:


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PostPosted: 11 Sep 2009 22:49 
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THE FLYING DUCHMAN wrote:
I cannot find any logic to what this might be


The logic is, that the engine is not warmed up before a 10 mls ride.

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PostPosted: 12 Sep 2009 19:26 
gunter wrote:
THE FLYING DUCHMAN wrote:
I cannot find any logic to what this might be


The logic is, that the engine is not warmed up before a 10 mls ride.


:)

I ment I can not understand why the engine is in balance at the start (it is cold), then it is out of balance (hardy warm) and then ok and not fully hot even then. That would suggest that something else is going on. Does it give the same amount of fuel to each cyl on CSE? I do not know all the workings of this system, I am ok with the normal types on cars, and IMO I do not think that many do.

If anyone knows a place with all the info to read-up on this system then let me know. I do not want to guess or presume anything as this tends to be the "Mother-of-all-feck-ups" if you do.


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PostPosted: 13 Sep 2009 08:19 
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Apparently warmup enrichment is a bit too low, rising fuel should fix that.

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PostPosted: 13 Sep 2009 17:12 
gunter wrote:
Apparently warmup enrichment is a bit too low, rising fuel should fix that.


Thanks, Gunter.


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PostPosted: 14 Sep 2009 20:54 
Can the CSE be changed and/or turned off.


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PostPosted: 14 Sep 2009 23:32 
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proff. patpending
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Yes

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PostPosted: 14 Sep 2009 23:43 
Thank you Pash. How would I go about doing this.


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PostPosted: 14 Sep 2009 23:48 
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I am not sure what you want to do (apart from change the correction for engine temperature), I'll have to read the thread, but I'll perhaps do that tomorrow.

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PostPosted: 15 Sep 2009 00:13 
I want to turn off the CSE, to see what happens, and the then if any adjustments can be made to see what they do.


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PostPosted: 15 Sep 2009 08:30 
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proff. patpending
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Easy. Open up ECMSpy, click on the tab for Other Maps... Locate the Cold Start Enrichment (Temperature Compensation).
Image

Click on the square you want to change, locate the input area at the bottom, type in the new value, press the equals button.
Image

When you have finished, click on the Burn button and you are done.

As from the diagram I linked to in the other thread, the compensation is in %, so to turn it off, you want to make it all 100%.

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PostPosted: 16 Sep 2009 16:31 
Hi Pash.

I have re-set the CSE to -10C to 160%, 22C to 120%, 65C to 110% and all the others to 100%. Going from -10C to 260C for CSE does not make any sense to me. Can you change these as I would have thought more linear values would be better.

What does WOT stand for. I cannot find it in the help file.

The AFV has stayed at 100%.


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PostPosted: 16 Sep 2009 16:45 
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proff. patpending
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THE FLYING DUCHMAN wrote:
Hi Pash.

I have re-set the CSE to -10C to 160%, 22C to 120%, 65C to 110% and all the others to 100%. Going from -10C to 260C for CSE does not make any sense to me. Can you change these as I would have thought a more linear value would be better.

What does WOT stand for.


Changing the CSE will make very little difference IMHO as:

1. when the bike is in closed loop anyway, so it will never run richer than stoichiometric
2. when the bike is at WOT (Wide Open Throttle):
a. the AFV, which is calculated in the Closed Loop Learn area will be applied
b. the Open Loop Learn Enable will be active and will ensure that the engine (REAR CYLINDER) will never run lean

I am not 100% sure what you want to achieve. CSE is purely a correction for engine temperature. You want to run rich when cold cos you get fuel condensing on cold cylinder walls (the choke), and you may want to run rich if the engine is overheating (latent heat of vaporisation assisting cooling). I don't think the map should be linear, and TBH if you warm the bike up before you have expectations of performance, you will never be in the low temperature area. I have never had any reason to want to change this correction. I have, however, had ideas about changing the front cylinder correction (check my diagrams) as a function of engine temperature. This will not be over-ridden by the lambda sensor.

The secret in order of importance, IMHO, is:

1. a good Front to Rear map relationship
2. an accurate map
3. accurate corrections

I have not had the chance to trawl back through your posts and I still don't know (or have forgotten) what the issue is.

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