UK Buell Enthusiasts Group

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Author:  Stick [ Tue May 10, 2016 5:15 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Ulytuning

gunter wrote:
Do not use MLV for tuning, it's a waste of time and fuel. Better follow instructions from the tuning guide, available here and here, and make use of the dynamic maps. MLV is a fantastic tool for watching logs, but not well suited for tuning.
pash wrote:
I think the answers you want are all in the tuning guide V2.
Let me know if not.

Sorry Guy,s :oooops: :coat:

Author:  Stick [ Mon May 16, 2016 11:37 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Ulytuning

After a big shove in the right direction from Gunter and Pash I promise to never mention the M word again. I think I overloaded on information and got it all completely wrong (as usual). I started again on Saturday burning with enthusiasm and headed out with the Inspiron Mini fully charged. I came back later with 4.6 mb of logged data.
1-load eprom
2-Open logfile-Load logfile-Read logfile.
3-open Maps-view Ego-view Fuel
4-Adjust Map/Maps-Save Map-Burn Map
5-Ride bike and :D
Sunday the missus was working so i went over to see a mate and go out for a ride.He was selling one of his bikes a Speed Triple and somebody was coming to view/buy it.
As i came into the village where he lives, just outside the local pub there was some sort of scooter meet going on. I swept past cranked over nicely as the pub sits on a bend with everyone looking round,the road straightened out ahead i was in the 2/2500 rpm range and lifted the front end for maximum effect 8-) Just up the road was a left turn where my mate lived,i slowed down turned left and as i gently fed in the throttle the revs increased dramatically and i lost drive immediately.
I indicated left and glided gracefully into his driveway with my drive-belt trailing behind me. Head held high i got off the bike and walked quietly away.

Author:  pash [ Mon May 16, 2016 12:04 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Ulytuning

Mint... Been there twice...

Author:  Stick [ Mon Jun 06, 2016 2:26 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Ulytuning

Just finished the Closed Loop Tune of both front and rear maps. I repeated both cylinders 6 times to get Ego readings from 99-102.Went out with mates for a ride to the Cotswold's on Sunday and the bike ran like a dream, i can let it run down to 1500 rpm in top (have some of that) with no bucking coughs or hesitation. I think my tuning strategy is to make the bike go Slower-Better. How many times have you heard the saying(I want to love this bike but it wont let me)
Now you can :D
I have just started on the WOT stage of the tuning guide on the rear and after reading the log-file I'm getting Lambda readings at tps 255 from 0.76 at 2900-0.79 at 7000 and fluctuation in between so I kneed to get that line stable. I would prefer to adjust manually, any idea how many points to remove to reach target AFR? or is it a case of trial and error. I don't want to use the M word.
Thanks for help so far.

Author:  pash [ Mon Jun 06, 2016 4:07 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Ulytuning

Doesn't quite hold over large changes but % on map gives % on lambda. Lambda is mass air / mass fuel.

You put more fuel in, not only does it run rich cos there is more fuel, but you are also reducing the amount of air that can go in (but you are also cooling it so it is more dense, as a result of the latent heat of vaporisation).

Author:  Stick [ Fri Jun 10, 2016 12:05 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Ulytuning

Thanks Pash I wondered what those buttons were for :oooops: I went back out Tuesday for an hour and rode the bike like I'd stolen it. I came back eyes bulging after risking limb and license with all those WOT roll-ons. After my hands had stopped shaking I made a cup of earl grey to soothe my nerves and loaded up the log file ready to stabilize the top lines. With over 3.0mb of data at my disposal things were looking good. When I hit the lambda button Blankety-Blank Nada WTF! I sat staring at a white page. A quick trip to Device Manager showed the dreaded yellow triangle for my LC-2 serial cable :headbang: ( If At First You Don't Succeed ----------- ) The next day when my nerves had settled I went out to repeat, this time I made sure W/Band was activated and showing and went back out like a dispatch rider delivering pizzas in central London.
Its good fun staring at an Afr gauge and some lines on a bit of masking tape when your doing 125, swathed in cables with a lap-top swinging round your neck wb
Thanks for help so far.

Author:  gunter [ Fri Jun 10, 2016 1:05 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Ulytuning

IMO wideband measurements are too time consuming in regard to their results, therefore I haven't done so for years - except when checking my software and overall procedures. The key for all tuning is to run the engine at a specific operating point for some time to let everything stabilize and settle. No acceleration or overrun condition, if possible. Now, facing the fact that 100 mph is still in closed loop, it might get difficult to find a place to legally check at this or even higher speeds.

When I adjusted the maps for a new muffler, I switched off WOT enrichment, did acceleration runs and carefully fixed all lean spots, but trying to avoid a rich mixture too. When WOT enrichment is enabled again, the mixture will be rich about 10%, which is fine for a XB. In my oppinion the engine is very sensitive to an overly rich mixture. You might not get max power when adjusting using acceleration runs, but with all lean and rich spots fixed, the bike will accelerate smoothly and steadily, which is what most people want from a large V2 engine.

Author:  Stick [ Mon Jun 13, 2016 12:48 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Ulytuning

Thank you G√ľnter, after taking on board your advise I decided not to risk incaseration and show the engine some mechanical sympathy. I turned off WOT and went out Saturday for a nice long run, concentrating on getting steady readings holding different speeds. You can see the AFR gauge settling when you hold a constant speed so I made a point of holding any weak spots so I could get lots of hits in that area. With WOT turned off is it safe to hit max throttle under load? if so what is a safe lambda reading to run the engine at in this region (tuning guide 13.2:1) of the map as this will determine the base map before 10% enrichment is applied?
Thanks for help so far.

Author:  pash [ Mon Jun 13, 2016 7:12 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Ulytuning

I hate to go against the grain, but this isn't how I would do it.

Firstly, fuel requirement is only one aspect of 'calibration' at a fixed speed and throttle opening, the other, and it is the one we shy awat from, is ignition advance.

The way the maps look, and taking into account the factors for OL and OL WOT, it appears that the guys that did the mapping created a map based on stoichiometric, and if we use a little more imagination, they *could* have done the calibration by making the whole map closed loop and targetting and EGO correction of 1 everywhere.

Stoichiometic needs more ignition advance than 13:1 (which is the AFR I found to work best on my Firebolt). Lets for the sake of argument consider that the ignition timing is optimised for 13:1, if you are going to be running at 14.7:1, the ignition timing will be over-retarded and the engine will run hotter as a result of the later burn. This will mean that you get less air in as the air is being heated up, and the consequence of this is that the closed loop will demand less fuel, then when you multiply it by the factor (110%) for OL WOT you end up with too little fuel going in...

But back to the question as I remember it (I am offline at the moment), yes, if you can't get to a dyno, I would do high gear roll-ons and log the WB AFR at the throttle positions related to the Y axis of the maps. Of course, anything over 4000RPM will result in a smacked arse from Officer Dibble, but you could find a steep hill and go in a lower gear. After all, this is how it works on an inertia dyno. The next question is how to determine the optimum ignition timing. Well, assuming you used the same road each time and the gradiaent was constant and teh wind was the same etc., you could look at the rate of change of speed (Force = Mass x Acceleration). For optimising it at part throttle, you want to be looking at the minimum injector pulse width at a fixed engine speed (the injector pulse width will change as will the throttle need to maintain a constant speed).

If I had more time, I would be doing as you are...

Author:  Stick [ Tue Jun 28, 2016 6:07 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Ulytuning

Big day tomorrow the Uly is booked in for a thrashing on a dyno. After a chat with one of the guys at work I found out we have a fairly new bike shop locally that has a dyno room. I popped in to have a look and a chat. They mainly fit power commanders and tune Ducati's so are well aware of V-twins and their fuelling requirements. The chap that runs it was very interested and keen to have a play with the Buell and help me with my custom map which I would like to validate in a more controlled environment. We touched on the subject of timing so maybe we can improve the ( Fluffy midrange spot ) and add some advance? At the moment I'm maxed out at 255 pulse width at 5000-6000 on the front cylinder, rear runs 239-230 at same rpm points on the map. See if this changes with conditions more stable. Any advice welcome.
Thanks for help so far.

Author:  pash [ Tue Jun 28, 2016 7:13 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Ulytuning

If you need more fuel at the top you can increase your OL WOT factor and back off on the map.

Author:  Stick [ Fri Jul 15, 2016 4:45 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Ulytuning

Just to report back on Dyno Day. All went well and we did runs on both front and rear cylinders I used
monospy connected to one cylinder while Ian (dyno man) used his own dynojet w/band on the other, as well as a sniffer shoved right up the exhaust. From my side of things I could view everything as well as record log files of the runs. With WOT set to 115% -13.2 afr, power runs gave max hp 83.83
and max torque 76.98 with a slight dip of 4 in the torque curve between 3-4000 rpm. Just for comparison a standard xb12s thunderstorm, 1 of only 800 made with the twin lambda set up that belongs to a mate made 83.71 hp and 68.93 torque.
What I have is a bike set to run with no weak spots on acceleration runs with standard n/band connected /stable afv with a very smooth hp curve that climbs from 2.5-6000 rpm :dance:
Thank you very much to Gunter and Pash for your help .

Author:  pash [ Fri Jul 15, 2016 5:04 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Ulytuning

If we assumed all Dynojet dynos were the same and that the corrections applied for atmospheric temperature and pressure, I would say you still have at least 10% to find...

My XB12R with Ti Force pipe gave 90 on Moorespeed's dyno (thanks Tubbs)
My S1 with Mikuni and Buell Pro Race pipe gave 95 on Moorespeed's dyno (thanks Tubbs)

They both have the same top end (XB) and I reckon the 5hp difference was due to playing with ignition timing.

If I had the time, I'd like to come and play dynos with you (or anyone else) with a compliant dyno operator of course...

My 2010 Uly was a slug compared to my 2006 Uly (which is standard)

Author:  Stick [ Sat Mar 18, 2017 3:49 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Ulytuning

Quick update on the tune so far.
N/B 02 sensor is turned off (for now) as i am running slightly richer maps in closed loop area . I just run the bike all the time with W/B sensor and gauge to monitor AFR.
The only real issue i now have and would like to play with is (cold starting) idle spark advance temperature adjustment BUEIB 0x0184. Has anyone had success or any suggestions with this area. The eeprom reads 40 120 62 84 100 28 200 0 :? which is the best one to fiddle with (f**k up)
Thanks for help so far.

Author:  pash [ Sat Mar 18, 2017 5:26 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Ulytuning

What problem are you trying to fix with the idle table? I've never felt the need to play with it.

Nothing stopping you from tinkering, and as the temperature is anything between 5 and 10 degrees at the moment, its the 120 or 84 that you should be interested in raising/lowering (probably both).

The numbers you have look like this is real money.

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