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 Post subject: Brembo calipers
PostPosted: 12 Jan 2014 17:41 
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proff. patpending
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I am a bit bored so I thought it a good idea to share all I know about the little brembo calipers some of us like to use at the rear...

There are two types of twin* opposed* piston Brembo calipers in the modern* mainstream:

The early one:
Image Image

One interesting thing is that there is a version available with the feed on the opposite side, but I have never seen this as original fitment to a bike:
Image

And the later one:
Image Image

Each has its advantages and disadvantages...

Early:
Advantage - Top feed which means that you don't need additional space for the line fitting
Advantage - Pads are cheap
Disadvantage - Seals are not available (but I'll let you into a secret later)
Disadvantage - The feed is fixed to one end

Late:
Advantage - Changeable side feed which means that you can move the line fitting from one end to the other - swap the banjo bolt with the bleed nipple
Advantage - Readily available (I'll let you into that secret later)
Advantage - Bigger pad area
Advantage - Available in 32 or 34mm piston diameters
Advantage - Seals for the 34mm variant are available
Disadvantage - Seals for the 32mm variant are not available (but I'll let you into a secret later)
Disadvantage - The side feed needs some space for the line fitting

So, for hidden calipers on tuber, XB or 1125, the early caliper is the best choice (tuber drawings shown):
Image

For exposed calipers, the later caliper is best choice cos you can move the line fitting and there is no restriction on the side feed:
Image

So, where can you get them? New, from Bike Torque Racing. Secondhand, from EBay...

But where are the best deals to be had? What do you search for? And here comes the secret cos if I hadn't ended up devoting my life to being a PITA I would have probably been a detective, and I do like to keep my detective skills sharp by reading Jo Nesbo, Peter Robinson and Henning Mankell books.

So, lets look at the older caliper... Lets start by picking a bike it is on, how about a 1992 Ducati Monster?

Next, lets look in the EBC catalogue for what pads are fitted to the rear of a 1993 Ducati Monster:
Image

And we find it is an FA047 (I like to use the HH pads).

But where else can I find this caliper? Good question, and this is where detective skills come in. We look in the rear of the very useful EBC catalogue for what else that pad fits, and you will see there are loads. For instance, my black S1 uses a caliper off a certain year of TZR125 (which is finished in silver - the caliper, not necessarily the bike).

As for the later caliper, this is fitted to Adam's Ducati, so a search for the pads for a Ducati 1098 will give you a part number that you can cross check with... And if you do the cross check, you will be very very surprised what you can search for on ebay (bet nobody can be arsed to do the legwork here :run: ).

So, if you do get a secondhand caliper, you are not going to want to put it straight on without cleaning it and putting fresh pads in. Of course, you could just pull the pads and clean it with WD40 and a toothbrush, this would be fine if you know the caliper, but it is certainly not enough for me with an ebay caliper.

The calipers split down the middle, being held together by M8 allen screws. So, you need to remove them, split the caliper but make sure you don't lose the two little O-rings.

Then pull the pistons out... There are lots of tools to do this with, my favourite is this Laser tool:
Image

It even has an attachable slide hammer, but I have never needed this. The expanding plug doesn't damage the pistons and once tight grips firmly on the inside of piston enabling you to twist and extract it. Its a good idea to use a bit of brake cleaner inside the piston to let the plug grip it easily.

Then, carefully pull the seals cos you are going to need these. Inspect them, make sure they are not torn, worn or chemically corroded (by a bellend using a non rubber specific grease on them)...
Image

Then chuck the calipers in the ultrasonic cleaner:
Image Image

Using this at max strangth from Maplin:
Image

An hour in there at max temp gives you a clean caliper:
Image

Check the seal grooves, if there is any sign of corrosion, you will need to get the Dremel out and clean them up with one of these:
Image

Seals can then be cleaned with a rag only! Go on, you can use a bit of brake fluid if you really must. Take great care not to damage them or get them exposed to anything other than brake fluid or rubber specific grease (like Castrol red grease). Note that the outer seal has groove in it to catch crap, use a scribe or electrician's screwdriver to carefully pick the muck out.

Check the pistons for scoring then clean them with your favourite brand of brake cleaner and get all the circumferential lines of crap off.

The seals can be greased with Castrol red rubber grease and replaced.
Image

Then push the pistons in carefully all the way.

Clean the o-rings and apply a bit of Castrol red grease to them and then put them in position.

Put the sides together and bolt together using the allen bolts. These are zinc plated bolts from the factory, and being in a position where everyone forgets, they do go rusty, so you could always replace them with new bolts.

Then, all that is left is to put the bleed nipple and banjo bolt in place.

Other considerations:

Engineering drawings. Are there any? Sure:
Attachment:
File comment: 'Older style'
oppracing 20-5161-33_43 FP brembo.pdf [784.69 KiB]
Downloaded 143 times

Attachment:
oppracing 20-6950-53_63 brembo.pdf [777.49 KiB]
Downloaded 136 times


Copper washers. I am all for recycling and used copper washer do not always seal as well as they used to. Our friend Fozberry wrote a nice article for us here - viewtopic.php?f=17&t=6133

Seals. Here is a great secret which I am going to let you in on. If you went to your Ducati dealer and said, 'can I have some seals for my rear caliper?' they would say 'Sorry, you have to buy the whole caliper' resulting in you thinking 'damn'. But they are available, Brembo wont sell you them as from the engineering drawings, they are not listed as a spare...

But if you have an early 32mm piston caliper, you will need:
1 x Ducati part 800029627 for the inner seals (about £20)
2 x KTM part 50313081000 (about £5) or 1 x KTM part 69013081000 (about £15) for the outer seals (about £5)

For a late 32mm piston caliper, you will need:
1 x KTM part 69013081000 (about £15) for the inner and outer seals

For a late 34mm piston caliper, you will need:
2 x KTM part 54613318200 (about £5) - TBD

I'll post some more pics in due course...

* this is a caveat

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 Post subject: Re: Brembo calipers
PostPosted: 12 Jan 2014 17:45 
Well done Sir


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 Post subject: Re: Brembo calipers
PostPosted: 12 Jan 2014 17:49 
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proff. patpending
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gibbsy wrote:
Well done Sir

Oh you big tease... :P

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 Post subject: Re: Brembo calipers
PostPosted: 12 Jan 2014 19:08 
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Think Pink
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DOC ....the KTM part number you sent me as above according to a long eton KTM dealer has both the dust seal and pressure in the packet so a full referb cost 18 squid which includes 3 squid postage :yup: one tip when fitting pistons in reseald caliphers....... rotate the piston at the same time as feeding it through the new seals :yup: :old: :D :D

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 Post subject: Re: Brembo calipers
PostPosted: 12 Jan 2014 19:18 
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proff. patpending
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WILLYBUELL wrote:
DOC ....the KTM part number you sent me as above according to a long eton KTM dealer has both the dust seal and pressure in the packet so a full referb cost 18 squid which includes 3 squid postage.


KTM part 50313081000 contains one inner and one outer seal, but the inner seal is the wrong size for these calipers (it is for a single piston sliding caliper).

The 32mm Brembos need seals of this dimension set:

Inner
2.20mm high
1.96mm wide

Outer
2.70mm high
2.30mm wide

The KTM kit contains:

Inner
3.20mm high
2.90mm wide


Outer
2.70mm high
2.30mm wide


You can buy seals on begay that say they fit, but they don't!

I get my KTM spares from Trevor Pope Motorcycles :D

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 Post subject: Re: Brembo calipers
PostPosted: 12 Jan 2014 21:21 
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proff. patpending
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Had a PM asking about the anti rattle spring and pin to hold the pads. For the older caliper, the Ducati part number is 61240131B (note that there are a number of Ducati part numbers for the same thing but this is one of if not the cheapest)...

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 Post subject: Re: Brembo calipers
PostPosted: 07 Feb 2014 22:06 
Hi Pash been following this thread regarding the Brembo calipers and wanted to know if you could point me in the direction of a detailed drawing for an X1 hidden caliper bracket as i have access to an abundance of marine grade ali and fancy making one ....Cheers :yup:


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 Post subject: Re: Brembo calipers
PostPosted: 08 Feb 2014 10:16 
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proff. patpending
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milky wrote:
Hi Pash been following this thread regarding the Brembo calipers and wanted to know if you could point me in the direction of a detailed drawing for an X1 hidden caliper bracket as i have access to an abundance of marine grade ali and fancy making one ....Cheers :yup:

I am pretty sure I have posted my drawings before but to be honest, if you can make, you can measure and there is nothing to it, all the info you need is in this thread, you just need a ruler, a centre punch. and set of dividers.

What I would hate is to post a drawing then someone using the company CNC machine at lunchtime made a hundred of them, sell then on eBay and profit from the time I took to use a ruler.

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 Post subject: Re: Brembo calipers
PostPosted: 08 Feb 2014 14:35 
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Pash.

What happened to those tuber rear caliper mounts you were asking for numbers for whether hidden or on show. This was before xmas. Just found the thread it was oct 17th in technical. Are you going to run some up on your new miller :idea:


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 Post subject: Re: Brembo calipers
PostPosted: 08 Feb 2014 15:58 
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proff. patpending
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DaveH wrote:
Pash.

What happened to those tuber rear caliper mounts you were asking for numbers for whether hidden or on show. This was before xmas. Just found the thread it was oct 17th in technical. Are you going to run some up on your new miller :idea:

Yeah... That's the other thing... I contracted someone to make me four hidden and three exposed brackets in October and he hasn't finished them yet. I need one for the X1 so will be doing my own on the mill. I can do more... I need to chase the CNC man though :twisted:

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 Post subject: Re: Brembo calipers
PostPosted: 08 Feb 2014 17:22 
Well thats an idea to make em and sell em as i use a cnc machine at work and the ali all comes free .. :yup:


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 Post subject: Re: Brembo calipers
PostPosted: 08 Feb 2014 17:47 
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proff. patpending
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More incentive to do your own design rather than profit from mine :idea:

You have the caliper drawings, you know your disc diameter and you can measure your axle diameter. You have the material for free, what more do you need?

The funny thing is that I was going to find then PM my drawings to you...

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 Post subject: Re: Brembo calipers
PostPosted: 18 Feb 2014 22:42 
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Because he has got all the gear but no idea.
Not you obviously pash.
I'll make them for you.

Andy


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 Post subject: Re: Brembo calipers
PostPosted: 19 Feb 2014 06:26 
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proff. patpending
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spondon440 wrote:
I'll make them for you.


And that is an option that I will be following up, especially with a 3 dimensional design I was thinking of doing. Not sure of the demand or whether it is worth your while doing them.

The guy who I am waiting on makes them in his lunch hour, but he has obviously not been having lunch for about 5 months now. He also cannot work with models, having to input the points manually - I think it is post G Code, difficult to know, but if it was G Code I could have given him that.

The ones on my bikes I made on my old man's Bridgeport, but they obviously take time and need the help of a (mechanical) file - and to be honest I have many more things to make and do in my own time. A CNC machine gives a nice smooth profile, neilc and cooter had some the CNC guy did for me.

Since I have contracted the guy to make me some, I probably need to give him a little more time before going elsewhere.

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 Post subject: Re: Brembo calipers
PostPosted: 11 May 2014 07:03 
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proff. patpending
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Aw man, not the best of weekends for me this one. Bought a few calipers, one grey (was planning on a surprise for sillyb) and one of a new design I wanted to try with a different bracket.

The grey one was in appalling condition, the bleed nipple sheared off on trying to remove it, even with heat applied. I tried to get it out with a posh Snap On screw extractor and it broke the caliper casting. I had bought it off a guy on eBay for £35 off auction and of course he doesn't want anything to do with it. Wouldn't be so bad if the pistons were useable, but they are scuffed and corroded, and the seals are hard and distorted... Could have saved a bit of time by just throwing £35 straight in the bin... :evil:

The second design of caliper was better, but the pistons and seals are in a similar condition.

Still, it is an opportunity to try out some replacement pistons (which you can't buy directly from Brembo) along with my seal solutions above... The old pistons and seals would have worked, but what is the point in having a brake caliper that is only 40% effective :?:

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